tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post116057313425966183..comments2023-09-21T08:53:42.554+01:00Comments on blethers: Discipline and despairChristine McIntoshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14198224025775398453noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160771375456390582006-10-13T21:29:00.000+01:002006-10-13T21:29:00.000+01:00found your blog through Kelvin's.Youmight be inter...found your blog through Kelvin's.Youmight be interested in this one <BR/><BR/>www.rainbowlightschool.edublogs.orgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160762479647209492006-10-13T19:01:00.000+01:002006-10-13T19:01:00.000+01:00I was going to use both, if that is ok? It may ha...I was going to use both, if that is ok? It may have gone out my head before Wednesday!The Music-Makerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18126082041533795799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160750323440086092006-10-13T15:38:00.000+01:002006-10-13T15:38:00.000+01:00Feel free - but I'd prefer you to include the orig...Feel free - but I'd prefer you to include the original post rather than paraphrase it through resposes to it.Christine McIntoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14198224025775398453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160737451811004682006-10-13T12:04:00.000+01:002006-10-13T12:04:00.000+01:00In that sense, I completely agree! Departments hav...In that sense, I completely agree! Departments have to stick together. I suppose I am still in the mind set of my last placement which involved no support from PT or colleagues. So, therefore, I had to learn how to cope with discipline and the like on my own. I just need to learn to ask, I suppose!<BR/><BR/>If you don't mind, I would like to print this page and bring it up at the next tutorial. Would you mind?The Music-Makerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18126082041533795799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160732230633972552006-10-13T10:37:00.000+01:002006-10-13T10:37:00.000+01:00Duffy, I notice from choir practice in DGS that th...Duffy, I notice from choir practice in DGS that they've resorted to one warning > move seat > outside > referral. I couldn't bear the assertive discipline structure.<BR/>Some of your ideas are spot on, but I'd be wary of isolating yourself entirely simply because any teacher (including me) might need the back-up of an ally at any time. That's all.Christine McIntoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14198224025775398453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160699941510251272006-10-13T01:39:00.000+01:002006-10-13T01:39:00.000+01:00Excuse the typos - too late to be thinking! PS - s...Excuse the typos - too late to be thinking! <BR/><BR/>PS - seriously, have you read "Teaching as a subversive activity"?The Music-Makerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18126082041533795799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160699823634229562006-10-13T01:37:00.000+01:002006-10-13T01:37:00.000+01:00Apparently teachers are not on their own, though. ...Apparently teachers are not on their own, though. Most of the schools I have been in work on the policy of "assertive discipline," which I absolutely hate! Did you become involved in the joys of this while you were still at DGS? You must have, if you know about the 'three warnings' milarky. <BR/><BR/>There are schools who have the last resort as 'send to faculty head' or 'Head Teacher.' Others use the 'Exclusion Unit," which I think is absolutley rediculous, to be honest. We are continually told about 'inclusion' in the classroom, but when it comes down to behaviour, we are expected to go through a process of exclusion - all very contradictory.<BR/><BR/>And... what happens if you are faced with an S2 music class that decide to throw dairy products at their teacher? What do we do then? We cannot very well send 13 pupils to the 'sin-bin' can we? No wait a minute... it's the first time they've done it, so we'll just give them a verbal warning and bring it up with the PT - yeah right!<BR/><BR/>Here's my theory:<BR/><BR/>1. I think teachers, in teacher training, should be given a specific class on how to handle themselves in any given situation. A sort of role-play class, if you like. Afterall, teaching is about performance, more than anything. You don't perform, you don't receive attention. No attention, no-one learning!<BR/><BR/>2. New teachers should be left on their own to work out what method of discipline works for them and should be incouraged, for the first few weeks, *never* to exclude anyone from the classroom. That way, if they sort the buggers out in-house, it lets the entire group know what is expected of them and the discipline procedure within their classroom.<BR/><BR/>3. The oldest trick in the book - frighten the life out them for the first few weeks, then start to ease off. Don't know if I like this method that much but it works! I'm at an advantage in the drama room...<BR/><BR/>4. Be consistent. If you make a threat, carry it out.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, another rant! You probably think I have adopted the role of an Army sargeant but don't worry - nothing of the sort. I actually feel that discipline is the one area I am really good at and that was the one thing I got shining bright marks for (he toots his own horn). I state my classroom expectations on the first day and if they are broken, immediate action is taking. It's a training process for the class as well as the teacher...<BR/><BR/>Think I might take on the subject of discipline for my dissertation. HHmmm <BR/><BR/>Would you not rather operate on your own as a new teacher, just out of interest?The Music-Makerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18126082041533795799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160694964416927842006-10-13T00:16:00.000+01:002006-10-13T00:16:00.000+01:00Rant away, chaps - I always found a good rant from...Rant away, chaps - I always found a good rant from within the class made for a stimulating period!<BR/><BR/>But I'm perturbed by the notion that it's still being taught that teachers have to operate on their own. I thought that had gone out with the Ark - belonging more to the days of the belt as final solution. Any teacher can find a situation which can be defused by the removal of a pupil - and any teacher, however junior, can supply the space for that because often all that's needed is an unfamiliar class.<BR/>I used to be an effective belter - but found the solutions I've outlined just as effective in more recent times.Christine McIntoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14198224025775398453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160679231906943092006-10-12T19:53:00.000+01:002006-10-12T19:53:00.000+01:00Chris, yup - I totally agree. But I still wouldn'...Chris, yup - I totally agree. But I still wouldn't want someone else's brought to me, unless, of course, I was the PT.<BR/><BR/>ab - Ok, I understand what you are saying, but I'm not convinced. Maybe I gave a bad example and maybe the word "humiliate" is rather strong. But... I still stand by it, i'm afraid. I would have explained my feelings further, but then, I would have put it on my own blog. Chris knows the kind of teacher I am and the kind of classroom dynamics I work under - so I posted this knowing that she would know what I meant by my comment. So - what did I learn? Always remember your audience.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, sorry if I 'annoyed' you, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.The Music-Makerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18126082041533795799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160607688371204472006-10-12T00:01:00.000+01:002006-10-12T00:01:00.000+01:00"Apparently you are a "weak" teacher if you remove..."Apparently you are a "weak" teacher if you remove disruptive children for other people to handle."<BR/>This is patently nonsense - and is as old as the hills. I did it for years; so did the PT I worked with. I rest my case ;-)Christine McIntoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14198224025775398453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160601463713669772006-10-11T22:17:00.000+01:002006-10-11T22:17:00.000+01:00"I personally recommend the routine organisation o..."I personally recommend the routine organisation of a department – or group of smaller departments – so that every teacher in it knows which colleague at any given moment is free to take in a single pupil or a couple at the most, to work in silence within another class – preferably of another year group. That benefits everyone, and means that every teacher has something to give as well as to receive."<BR/><BR/>I see what you are saying here, but unfortunately this is absolutley frowned upon now! Apparently you are a "weak" teacher if you remove disruptive children for other people to handle. Althought I don't really agree with this, I do think that, if I was in a situation where a pupil from another class was brought into mine, I'd be rather a bit annoyed because then it becomes *my* inconvenience and would therefore disrupt *my* class. <BR/><BR/>I do agree with the whole 'three warnings thing'. I try to avoid it like the plague, but then I get shouted at by PTs and the like for not adhearing to the school's policy. But why should I do it? It doesn't work for me as a teacher because I cannot work in a robotic manner.<BR/><BR/>I also completely hate this idea of not humiliating the child who humiliates you. I'm sorry, and I know people may completely disagree with this, but if you make a fool out of them (within reason) it is guaranteed they won't do it again! For example - I am always met with some ruddy child saying "Sir... Are you gay?" My reply is always "No, why? Do you have some sort of Homosexual fantasy you would like to share with the rest of the group?" Now... that has happened on every single school visit I have been involved in and when my method of control is used, it never happens again. Why? Because the disruptive pupil knows i have the potential to make him look a complete arse. Who did I learn that from? My teachers at school and by God it worked for them...<BR/><BR/>Chris, excuse the above rant, but this is something I have been arguing about recently. Discipline is, to quote the lecture, "complete crap" these days. Yet... we still haven't been told the most effective method. Have you read the book "teaching as a subversive activity" by Neil Postman? I picked it up and it is actually a really good read if you are into education and its arguments. Some of it is a bit radical, but very good to bring yourself to place an argument for or against!The Music-Makerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18126082041533795799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19191002.post-1160583029753181972006-10-11T17:10:00.000+01:002006-10-11T17:10:00.000+01:00I know that having a good PT will be important to ...I know that having a good PT will be important to me when I go into probation next year, for this reason.<BR/><BR/>In my subject (technical) things usually work differently from other parts of the school and it is very difficult to use the same array of techniques that work in other departments and having another Technical teacher around is a must sometimes, for even the experienced teachers.<BR/><BR/>What will make it harder is when faculty heads become the norm if I have to refer a pupil to someone more senior then I would likely have to send them to a Home Economics teacher. The problem here is, without meaning any disrespect to HE teachers, technical departments run totally differently from other departments and need a different approach to sorting out discipline which people from outwith the dept don't have.<BR/><BR/>I can't see the faculty system staying with us for very long - for all it saves money in salary, it will lose staff in the way you talk about, and when students come there won't be any staff with time to spend with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com